Here is the recap of our Google Hangout video with Dr Osborn and Dr Farber.
There were a lot of excellent topics discussed.
*REMEMBER* these Hangouts now occur on the First and Third Wednesday of every month.
You can RSVP for the next Hangout on January 21st now.
We’ve included the entire transcript in case you don’t have time to watch and listen to the full video.
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Awesome, we are on.
Jay and Monica:
It’s Jay and Monica. Welcome to our third ever Fab Fit Local Google Hangout hosted by Scott Sillari of Vyral Marketing. We are very excited for this third show. In case you’ve been following along a bit, we are going to attempt to do this twice a month, the first and third Wednesdays of every month. And whenever they can be, we are going to be joined by Dr. Brett Osborn and Dr. Leonard Farber who of course were gracious enough to join us on our last show in December.
Just so you guys are aware, most of the topics we will be discussing are a wide variety: anti-aging, nutritional supplementation, training (both cardiovascular and weight training), hormone optimization (including Testosterone replacement therapy). I mean really any of these topics are on the table and open for discussion.
And a lot of the stuff which Monica is really good with which is mindset, empowerment, personal growth and development. With that said, Dr. Osborn has not joined us yet.
[Sarcasm]: For some reason patients seem to need their doctors. I have no idea why. [laughs]
He’s running behind a bit. But let’s go ahead and start talking and I’ll let Scott start hosting and doing what he does best. But topics today are about nutritional supplementation, anti-aging.
Before we actually start, I want to tell everyone that we are giving away a free chapter from Dr. Osborn’s book, “Get Serious.” All they have to do is go to our website which is www.FabFitOver40.com/supplements and you can get a free chapter on Dr. Osborn’s recommended supplements by going there and clicking on “Give Me the Free Chapter.” Obviously, we encourage you to buy his book which will also be located on that page. You can go right to Amazon and buy his book. But in case you want to get a bit more in-depth without having to purchase it, just download the chapter on supplements. Monica and I literally live by that supplement protocol and we swear by it. So there you have it.
There you go, and here’s Scott.
Hey. And we’re going to update the page at the end with the links, the Google+ page so that people can jump on and grab that stuff too. So we got a lot to cover. There’s always a lot to cover on this subject, but you laid out some questions and I think maybe starting with…talk about how to remain visibly lean year-round. So, I mean where do you even begin with that? Where do even start?
It really comes down to, if you’re a guy or a gal, your age, the amount of time you’ve been training, whether it’s weight or cardiovascular/endurance exercise…but I think, again, it depends on your age, but let’s say you’re the average 40 year old guy or girl, you have a very busy professional life… There he is, Dr. Brett!
Dr. Brett! The patients let you go.
How are you?
It looks dark here.
It’s very dark. We can’t see you.
So Dr. Brett we’re talking about…we just asked the first question, it’s not just for you personally but as anybody, how do you remain visibly lean year-round? And I was just about to jump into, obviously the diet component. But maybe you could pick up on that question. What would your recommendations be for someone who wanted to remain visibly lean year round?
Here’s the first and foremost, at least in my opinion. The first thing one needs to do in order to maintain and have a lean physique year round is to have a good sense of body mindfulness. You need to know your body very very well.
What I mean by that is that the most important thing in that context is to know how carbohydrate sensitive you are because ultimately one’s leanness depends upon…I would say the primary factor that one’s leanness depends upon is what their circulating insulin level is at any given time. There are a lot of ways, as you are well aware of, to modulate your insulin level.
You can do it naturally by making sure your simple carbohydrate intake is relatively low. It’s going to show your body a low insulin signal. And not only do I use that method which is a standard MO of diets or you can use drugs like metformin which do the exact same thing. You’re going to lower your basal insulin levels, put you closer to, if not in, a relatively fasted state. Which is a state in which you are lypolytic, “fat burning,” most of the time as your fuel preference as opposed to not doing so. Metformin, I always liken it to putting your physiology, your metabolism closer to that of a starving individual. And it allows you to cheat, if you will, maintain a relatively lean physique.
But again, in a circuitous way of answering the question, you have to know how carbohydrate sensitive you are. That said, secondarily would be to stack on as much muscle as you possibly can as opposed to running around think that the correct thing to do is to do all this endurance work. Which has fat burning effects as we all know, but far less than that type of work coupled with a muscular physique. The muscle is very metabolically expensive tissue and will burn fat, very much so, in addition to burning glucose. But preferentially in its rested state, your muscle is going to be burning your fat stores, both stores of fat from within the muscle itself (the intramuscular fat) as well as calling upon fat storage elsewhere in the body and utilizing that as substrate for ATP production.
So in other words, in order to maintain itself it’s going to be calling upon other fat stores of the body not just those within the muscle itself locally. So there are a lot of different ways that you can maintain a lean physique. It’s actually easier than most people think. You don’t necessarily need to turn this into too much of a science project. You just need to have an understanding of what drives the fat burning process.
Dr. Leonard what’s up my brother?
How you doing man, can you hear me?
We can hear you perfect. How are you? Happy New Year. Dr. Osborn was just answering the first question that we had today and that was, how do you maintain a relatively lean physique year-round and his answer was a combination of putting muscle mass on to become more metabolically efficient, burn more calories at rest because you have more muscle and he also mentioned utilizing metformin to lowering resting blood glucose, and to know and understand your carbohydrate sensitivity.
So I got a question Dr. Osborn. For people that aren’t 100% on top of their health and fitness, someone like me. I work out here and there. I try to eat healthy, but I really don’t understand what I should or shouldn’t be eating, how carbs affect my diet, exactly what supplements I should be taking…where do I start? Because I feel like most people are in a category like I’m in where there’s some pounds I could lose and I could definitely work out better and eat better. But I’m doing it arbitrarily based on a million different things I’m hearing on the internet or media or whatever and I’m not 100% sure what I should be doing for ME because my body’s different. Where do I even start?
That’s a very good question and one that I am called upon to answer all the time. The first thing that you have to do is that you have to define what your goals are. So if you goals are to become leaner, and the majority of us have that as a goal, you need to take steps to do what you can to shed that fat. With the understanding in mind that you can’t really do both concomitantly.
So your physiology is really set in an anabolic state or a catabolic state. If you are going to try to maintain a lean physique or shed body fat, what you’re going to need to do is, in addition to working out (i.e. strength training, trying to put that muscle on your body), you’re going to have to make every effort, to despite the fact that your muscle is really craving those carbohydrates, you’re going to have to try to maintain your caloric intake in order to be able to recover those muscles but your carbohydrates aren’t going to be coming from those simple carbohydrates that your muscles are going to be craving.
You do need carbohydrate. You do need insulin so you can recover from workouts. And this balance that I’m talking about is extremely difficult. This is why bodybuilders don’t ride that fine line year round. They basically become heavy, with both fat and muscle in an anabolic state. Because when you’re in an anabolic state you are putting on both fat and muscle, nut just muscle, despite what people may believe.
And then they use the pre-contest period to basically go on an Atkins diet if you will, and they are showing their bodies very low insulin. During that time, they are losing both fat and muscle. And the fine line that they ride is, “How am I going to be able to maintain as much muscle as possible and lose the maximal amount of fat as possible,” to the point where they are getting down to 1% or 2% body fat and some people even less. That’s very very difficult thing.
And a lot of the bodybuilders, as I’m sure you’ve heard, screw it up. But that doesn’t apply to the average individual because the average individual is not a professional bodybuilder. So what I usually tell my patients to do is to try to get to the point where you’re happy with how much fat you have on your body. In order words strive for that 32 inch waist or that 31 inch waist, whatever it is. And then worry about thereafter, stacking that muscle on.
You can’t do both. What you can do though, as I said before, train, get your calories from predominantly protein, fat, and a little bit of carbohydrate (so a 100 or 150 grams per day is what I usually tell patients to start out with) independent of their weight. And that’s going to put them closer and closer to that fasted state.
They are not going to be amassing muscle in that state, I can tell you. You’re actually going to be getting thinner. Some of them will even complain that they are losing a bit of muscle. You know what? That’s OK. Because ultimately they’re going to sort of switch gears when they reach their target body fat level. Then we’ll have another conversation with them about how to carefully put on muscle without adding too much fat. So if you’re running around, I can only see your torso [to Scott], you’re a talking head just like I’m a talking head, with excess body fat around your waist like a lot of males are, you want to get rid of it. What you don’t want to do is go to the gym and come home and have a product like Gainer’s Fuel which is filled with sugar at 8 o’clock at night.
That’s a mistake that everybody makes. It’s not going to be conducive to fat loss and you’re never going to reach your goals. And that’s a VERY common mistake. What I usually tell my patients is this, the individuals that want to lose fat: train like you train, make sure you’re getting adequate calories (it’s easy to figure out where you should be, you can look at any of these basal metabolic rate [BMR] calculators,) and set your carbohydrate intake at 150 grams. If you happen to be very carbohydrate sensitive, set it at 100 grams of vegetable carbohydrates not simple carbohydrates. Get the rest of your BMR from protein and fat; don’t concern yourself with eating fat. You want to eat the good fat so, the olive oil, the flax seed, etc. You can eat almonds, walnuts; you can get you fats from there. Those are calorically dense foods, so you can actually get a lot of calories and you can maintain your body mass and calories through those type of calories and not worry too much about generating too much of an insulin signal.
Those foods do not generate an insulin signal of significance. Protein does generate an insulin signal but it a different morphology, if you will, than eating a simple sugar. So it’s easy ok.
So let’s go over it again, here are the DR. OSBORN RULES:
- No eating after 7 o’clock at night, unless you are training at 6 o’clock which I wouldn’t recommend doing.
- Lots and lots of water
- A gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (e.g. if you weight 180 lbs. eat 180 grams of protein)
- Start out with 150 grams of carbohydrates (unless very carbohydrate sensitive, then you’d start at 100 grams)
- Fill the rest of your calories with fat
How do you know what your total caloric intake should be? You use a BMR calculator.
What I usually tell my patients to do, if you’re trying to lose fat, eat basically at their sedentary BMR. Say for example you weigh 180 pounds and your BMR is 1800 calories or whatever it is. Eat 1800 calories. You’re going to weight train and burn, say 300 or 400 hundred calories, that’s going to create a bit of a caloric deficit and all you’re going to do, is lean out. I promise you. You’re not going to amass a lot of muscle, and that’s OK, but you will uncover muscle.
I have a question, and this can be for either Dr. Farber or for you Dr. Osborn. Most people like me, don’t measure their food, we don’t check our BMR, and we don’t have any of these things…
Yeah you do, you have me.
I have you. Let’s say, before Jay. What’s the way to more or less measure? You’re saying 150 grams of vegetable carbs, what’s a good way to measure that? Is it a handful of broccoli? Because most people aren’t going to weight their meat. They’re not going to do all these things.
That’s great question Monica and here’s the deal. For those individuals that are having problems, you don’t need to, you’re in great shape and I’m sure you’re an instinctive eater like I am. We may be a little bit different. We know ourselves very well. But individuals who are trying to lose fat and have had difficulties in the past, and this is one of the premises of the book: you need to become very serious about understanding your physiology and your body. One size does not fit all.
You can’t just go on this diet willy nilly and expect it to work. You have to “trial and error” things but the first thing that you need to be able to do, is, in the beginning, you need to establish say, 10 foods that you like in the carbohydrate and fat category. You need to get a guidebook and figure out, if it means weighing the food for the first month so that you understand exactly where you need to be, then it will take a month’s worth of work and then you’ll be set forever. It’s a good question.
So for example, if I’m trying to lean myself out, not that I’m not lean, but extra lean…I am looking at every food label, I know exactly how much I have to eat of this and of that and that’s the way I do it. Because if I want to trim back my carbohydrates as I’m getting closer and closer, which is again, what bodybuilders do, they are weighing their food. They know: 150 grams today, 125 tomorrow, 100 grams, and they know exactly where those carbohydrates are coming from.
It does take a bit of work and study in the beginning but once you sort of figure it out and get the feel for it, then that’s it. I would know thing things like, and I don’t know off the top of my head but the average chicken breast averages 30-35 grams of protein. The people who live this lifestyle, we know that.
I depend on Jay too much.
I think that both Scott and Monica’s questions tie together very well for the average person who doesn’t understand this whole process because we all live that life. I weight my food and I know the amount of carbs I need to have and protein. But if I take Scott’s question as the prototypical male’s question, “How do I do this,” I think Jay’s answer kind of alludes to one very important point in that it does require some effort.
Everybody wants this, “Just give it to me in five steps and I’ll do it.” Well the five steps include learning in great detail. When we set goals for ourselves, whether they are business-wise personal-wise, relationship-wise we don’t say, “I’m going to plan it out tonight and tomorrow I don’t have to put any effort into it.” I think once you accept the fact that this is for a lifestyle change and you embrace it and say, “OK I need to learn these facts,” then you can embark and we can give you the general rules. I think Brett did a great job summarizing it, but in that summary, it’s implicit, you have to learn the details of it.
At some point, and I like his idea, the first month learn what weighing things amount to. I stick the adage of your fist size is about a serving size. Well I’m not going to do a fist full of mashed potatoes, that kind of implies my protein portion. Then you need to understand what are good carbs, what glycemic index means. All of these things we are talking about already have a lot of relevance to people who already understand the concepts.
But if you are first listening or tuning in and saying, “OK I’m 40 pounds overweight, I want to start tomorrow,” you have to know the sites to go to. Don’t just go to Bodybuilding.com and say, “Oh, I’m going to follow this.” One, I think that Jay and Monica’s site is a great starting reference. I look at it every day and I refer so many people to it who just don’t understand and it’s a great starting point.
The second thing is, as you listen to Brett talk, if you are really ready to embrace that you need to see a physician. At some point, you need to need with somebody who is going to give you the tools to learn it and that’s usually when you say, “I’m ready to get serious,” so it’s kind of funny that…or ironic…that that’s the title of his book, but that’s really what it takes.
At some point we get serious. When we graduate from college or graduate school or whatever it is that we are doing and we want to pick the best career choice, we get very serious about it. We don’t go half-ass into a job. We don’t say, “You know what? Maybe I’ll dabble a little bit in medicine and see how that works out for me.”
It’s the same with your physique, training, and nutrition. And actually, if you make that a priority, everything else kind of falls into place so, I think that if you’re the common person who doesn’t know this stuff…you need to understand that you have to learn. You have to become educated and it isn’t just picking the right sites, it’s picking a site, going to a physician and I think that’s the value of having Brett really in on this is because he takes patients on and teaches them.
Just to kind of give you a little insight to is, what I realized about how I was in the past was I was so busy. And every time someone told me to weigh something, I would look at it and go, “Are you serious? I’m not going to sit here and weight my food and get ready.” But what I hear you saying is that it comes down to how serious you want to be about your health and about how you look, that’s what it comes down to.
Real quick before both of you guys answer, both your answers were awesome, thank you. As Dr. Farber just said, you can go to our site www.FabFitOVer40.com , you can also go to Dr. Osborn’s site it’s http://DrBrettOsborn.com/ . They’ve got tons of information on both sites. We did an article about 6 months ago that’s been highly trafficked it’s called Carbs You Should Eat.
It has an absolute enormous and immense break down of every type of carbohydrate based on whether it’s starchy, whether it’s green. It has caloric content or dense of everything. It’s a great article to start with whether you know nothing about nutrition or you’re a master.
But again, going back to what they were saying, you really have to do your homework. You have to take this serious as Dr. Farber just said. This is a job. If you’re going to lean out, Scott or anybody for that matter who wants to lose body fat you have to take this serious.
And getting back to what Monica just said, you can go on Amazon.com and buy a food scale for $20. You can have it sent right to your house and you can have it measure caloric portions of whatever it is and as Dr. Osborn said and rather well: for one month, you’re going to have to do some work. But after one month, you’re not going to have to weigh your food out because you’re going to know based on weighing it out for one month that what is relevant from a carbohydrate, fat, or protein standpoint of what you need to eat and what portion size.
I like what Dr. Farber had to say as well because if you do anything whether it’s a job, a relationship, anything is going to require effort. And if you want to great health and great physique that is going to require effort.
Then when it pays off…when you see the results and you’re happy, you always look back and say, “Wow, that wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be.” It’s always that new thing. We should look at it as a challenge every step of the way because you’re doing it for the sake of your own betterment so I just tell people to embrace it. Because if you look at it as something that’s going to help you, it’s not really work.
It’s just what you need to do to get there.
It’s all perspective, right?
OK, Scott. You want you go ahead and grab the next point.
Yeah, awesome. You guys kind of answered the question better. I appreciate it. And lot of this stuff I’m trying to personally implement into my life so…
Great news Scott, you can replay this hangout. [Laughs]
I might be getting on the phone with Dr. Osborn to just hire him because I clearly don’t know what I’m doing. But I guess I was going to lead into, we kind of talked about the food element, but now let’s talk about the exercise element and some of the training. If you’re to a point where you are lean but you also want to build muscle, what things are you looking to do essentially maybe in the gym?
So real quick, I want Dr. Osborn to answer this, but you guys have to buy his book, “Get Serious.” Go to FabFitOver40.com there is so much information about his book. You can get it directly though Amazon. We’re actually going to be giving away, we are, giving away a free chapter on supplementation on my site. We’ll talk more about that at the end of this hangout. Dr. Osborn and I are actually designing a workout program. I shouldn’t say I’m designing anything because it’s all his understanding of exercise science
The real truth is, and Dr. Osborn is going to talk a lot more about this is, you don’t have to train with weights that frequently to build an amazing physique, ok. Too many people need to believe that you need to be in the gym 7 days per week to carve out a really nice physique and it’s not true.
It all comes down to science, training intensity, and more than those 2 things combined is, COMMITMENT. It’s actually showing up at the gym and doing what you have to do. With that said, I want Dr. Osborn to answer it, so go ahead and answer the question about strength training and how you tie it together.
Right. I appreciate the plug there Jay. Here’s the deal, most of the training programs that individuals watching this have been involved with work and work fine.
I will tell you that I have been doing this for more than 30 years and I’ve tried almost everything as I’m sure Jay, Monica, and Leonard have done. And they work fine because these training programs are creating a novel stimulus to which the body responds. That said, in the book, I have sort of stolen, I’m not going to tell you that it’s anything that I have come up with is novel, bits and pieces from various programs and training protocols that I’ve done over the past 30 years and created sort of a hybridized type of program which incorporates powerlifting style training, what’s called strength endurance-type training which is more of the high intensity training that many of the viewers and readers are familiar with I’m sure, and also incorporates some garden variety what’s called “steady state” endurance or cardio, if you will, I don’t like that word.
It sort of hybridizes that into this formulation or training protocol which really involves a 5 day per week regimen. Twice a week you are do the heavy lifting if you will. Mid-week you are doing this high intensity type of, I’ll call it a “Cross Fit-ty” type of workout except without the associated dangers I would like to think, and then on Tuesdays and Thursdays doing steady state cardio. Now what this does, is that it allows for, I believe ample stimulation but adequate rest. That’s something that’s understated. I do talk about that in the book. I basically say every 6-8 weeks, and I know Jay and Monica do this, I’m sure Leonard does as well, you need to take a week off of training. A lot of us are overtrained.
The premise of the workout is to train the various energy systems of the body or the various fiber types, which are basically the same thing. We have several different energy systems in the body. We have several different muscle types and the protocol stimulates the various energy systems and those 3 fiber types. There are a lot more than 3 muscle fiber types but grossly there are 3. So on Mondays and Fridays, you are doing powerlifting type training. So you are doing staple movements, none of this fancy hang-from-the-chandelier, bosu ball, the clown stuff that you see going on in Crossfit…circus type stuff, there’s none of that stuff.
That stuff is dangerous, it’s ballistic, there’s no racing [in his protocol]. You are moving slowly, but you are using heavy weights and you are deeply recruiting the muscle in a powerlifting style protocol. So we use 5 different movements:
- Bench press
- Overhead press
- A pulling movement like a pull-up or a chin-up
The pulling movement is done on Wednesday as part of the high intensity. And the Bench press, squat, overhead press, and deadlift are split between Mondays and Fridays and there is a heavy and a light day for each so basically you’re training squats heavy in a 5×5 protocol every 2 weeks.
The second week, you are training squats light with 3x8s. So 3 sets of 8. So every week, what you are trying to do is push that 5×5 number. Say you squat 135 pounds, and I don’t care what you squat, I just want you to make progression. The next week, or the next heavy week which will be 2 weeks from then, you want to go to 140. And you want to make sure you get 5 sets of 5 reps. And that’s basically how you are benchmarking.
So you are not overtraining squats. You’re not training squats 3 times per week, you are training squats heavy once every 2 weeks. And people may say, “Oh that’s too little. You can’t do that.”
Well that’s load of garbage because you really need to give yourself adequate rest between heavy squat days if you are squatting properly. The same thing does for deadlift, overhead press, and bench press. So that’s really your Mondays and Fridays and again, this protocol is really outlined in book and Jay and Monica are doing a really good job of making it less cryptic because it is a bit difficult to understand. I apologize to the readers who are novices out there.
But with Jay and Monica’s help it’s doing to become a little bit easier.
On Wednesdays you are incorporating your pulling movements and it’s more of a fast paced workout where you are doing rucksack walks or farmer’s carries and also incorporating pull ups during that day. Pulls or chins are a staple exercise and it doesn’t matter which one you choose. I like pull ups. They are a bit harder. That is incorporated on that day.
And then on Tuesdays and Thursdays you are doing your garden variety, steady state endurance which is heart rate 75%-80% of V02 Max: elliptical, rowing, whatever it is. This isn’t cardio 5 days per week. I don’t believe in that. This is not, “Oh I need to be in the gym 5 days a week lifting heavy weights.” This is one of the main problems with CrossFit in addition to the fact that they are racing through their workouts like lunatics.
On Wednesdays you have your high intensity, sort of, strength endurance which is really getting your heart rate up, you are sort of working at that lactate threshold and it trains different fiber types than does the steady state endurance day than does the heavy day on Monday and Friday. So you have all the energy systems trained and all 3 fiber types trained. There’s a lot of overlap between fiber type training, but the majority of the work is of a particular fiber type so on your heavy days you are predominantly training those Type 2B fiber those fast twitch fibers.
The steady state day you are training those type 1 fibers, those oxidative fibers. And on the “Wednesday” day you are training type 2A which are called oxidative glycolytic. It’s an all-encompassing program which allows for rest, it benchmarks you so you know where you are, you write everything down, “I’m benching 135 for 5 today, I better get 140 the next time”
And you know what? You’ll rarely overtrain on this protocol if ever. It always presents a novel stimulus, it makes you excited, and it keeps the boredom away. For example my workout today, was 45 minutes which I rushing in order to get onto this hangout. It was swim across my lake 250 meters, take a 70lbs. rucksack down the block. Then we did some pull ups and some flutter kicks. Then we walked back with 50 lbs. dumbbells (farmer’s walks) about a third of a mile. Then swim back the 250 meters. Then 10 sandbag shoulders with 135 lbs. sandbags. Done.
It’s a little bit more than a half hour. It was about 45 minutes or so, we extended it a little bit. But it’s crippling and it’s great. But I will need tomorrow to either rest or do whatever type of steady state endurance at a relatively low heart rate, just so that I’m not the guy who is muscle bound but can’t walk up a flight of stairs. You want to be able to have that physique, have that strength, be able to deadlift 500 pounds, but you also want to be able to go run a mile and a half.
I think that I’ve done a pretty decent job of designing a program where it’s all-encompassing and it will only get better as it is tweaked by Jay and Monica because it seems that it’s a little bit cryptic to people that are reading it. But overall I think that I’m sending everybody a good message; it just may not be written so great.
Dr. Farber I want you to say something here in a second but, we are tweaking it. Not making it better by any stretch of the imagination but making it more clear cut. One other thing want to say is that Dr. Osborn and I are working on Get Serious Volume 2, which is going to be an advanced strategies version and we’ll have a number of workouts designed obviously around this protocol and that book. We’ll design stuff for beginners and newbies too.
I will be putting that workout on our site soon and honestly, Monica and I can already tell you guys, I’ve done everything under the sun, I know a lot of guys watching this have done everything under the sun. This workout is so intense that Monday night Monica and I both woke up at like 2:30 in the morning and we’re doing lightweight mind you too because we just started it and literally our central nervous systems were like “What the hell just happened to us?”
As Dr. Osborn just said, is you want to change your physique, you have to stress it. But you don’t have to stress it in a fashion that makes people burn out or get tired of going to the gym because we do the gym on this workout at most 3 days per week. We really don’t even have to go on Wednesday if we have some place that we could do farmer’s carries and farmer’s walks. And by the way, all of these things that we are saying when we say rucksack walks and farmer’s carries and anything like that, if you don’t know what the hell we’re talking about, just go on YouTube and search the terms and you will see what it is. But a farmer’s carry is grabbing two dumbbells in your hands and walking a certain amount of distance. The heavier the dumbbells the heavier the actual exercise.
So do you want to add anything to that Dr. Leonard?
Oh no. I was thoroughly enjoying that I have to say. I didn’t swim across the lake, I did burn a significant amount of calories on the subway tonight running away from the odor of 2 terrible homeless men. We probably don’t have that in the book but that’s a very New York thing. Then I trekked home in the 3 degree weather completely nude so that I would burn some extra calories from a hyper metabolic state. [Joking]
No, I think that the whole outline is great. As I listened to this and having trained in all different manners, the listener has to figure out what works best for them and where they are at that particular state and I listen to this and I say “OK, when I’m ready to do that, I will go that.” That’s not saying I’m not in great shape, but I happen to be in the best shape of my life right now, but I’ve picked a workout regimen that accommodates my lifestyle. And I don’t have an easy lifestyle. I’m up at 4:30 AM and I’m at the gym by 6AM, but I have a very tight schedule, not that most people don’t, but in order to maximize for my body type I have focused on my diet for #1.
So the #1 thing that has changed my physique has been my diet. And I’m sort of blessed in that I trained heavy in sort of the bodybuilding and powerlifting realm for many years and now I’m more in maintenance mode. So for me, I’ve gone into a very highly cardio-centric workout and I’ve been steered away from running. I started with running and Jay yelled at me every day and said, “What are you doing? You’re going to ruin your joints.”
So then when my knee started killing me, I said, “Hmm, maybe Jay’s onto something here.” But we knew that. But I knew that it worked and as you get more serious you start to learn the elements and why they apply. So for me now in particular, I have 30 minutes. So I do 30 minutes of intense cardio with is interval training where my heart rate fluctuates. I set goals on where it’s 60 to 100 or 85 to 100% but it works. And I incorporate kettlebell training. I think kettlebells are great if you do them correctly. I can’t stress that enough. It’s a total body workout for me so I do 4 days of interval training and I do 1 or 2 days of kettlebells and I work in weight training. But my goal has been, to stay lean, to actually get leaner and preserve the muscle mass I have.
That being said, it’s really about nutrition. So when people are out there listening, this show can apply the same to the serious bodybuilder and Brett, Jay, and Monica can seriously take you there. It could apply to the average listener who wants to get into great shape and it really has an element for everyone in there. The thing is, whoever you are and listening at the moment you have to pick what works for you. You can’t be that 80lbs. overweight guy saying, “Tomorrow, I want to look like Jay” for example. You can get there but it’s not going to be tomorrow. You have to set realistic goals and get serious about how you’re going to get there.
But you need to understand what those goals are because that’s going to determine your training and your eating. And then set realistic time frames. If you are 40lbs. overweight, you’re not going to be under 10% [body fat] in a month. It’s just not going to happen. But there’s no reason you can’t say, “Hey I can lose 2-4 lbs. per week by doing this the right way” because before you know it, 6 months have passed and you are down a significant amount of weight.
Thanks Dr. Leonard… OK, so we got like 15 minutes left…so I think the last topic we were going to discuss was a supplement protocol and maybe we’ll spend a couple minutes but we got a lot of really awesome questions and I really want the docs to try to answer these. So real quick, Dr. Osborn has an incredible chapter on the supplements that he uses in his anti-aging and supplement protocol. We are giving away this chapter, for free. All you have to do is go to our website. It’s www.FabFitOver40.com/supplements and you can download that entire chapter as a PDF for free. OF course we recommend you buy his book, it’s absolutely amazing. We’ve already sung its praises, but the chapter on supplementation it’s right there. It’s laid out. It’s very cut and dry. I actually did a blog last week it’s called Body Hacking Secrets and it has his entire supplement protocol laid out right there for you. But again the easiest way to do it is to go to www.FabFitOver40.com/supplements.
But real quick, Dr. Osborn did you want to talk about the type of supplementation you should be taking based on age, say if someone is 20 or 50 should the protocol be different for supplementation.
Like I always tell my patients, there are no age-specific supplements per-se, as there are no age-specific exercises. Individuals come to me and they are in their 60s and 70s and they say, “I’m too old to do the exercises that are in your book.”
Says who? That’s just not true. An individual that’s 70 or 80 years old, they can squat. OF course they can. They can squat without weight. They can squat with the bar. The same thing applies to supplements. Why? Because what we’re trying to do is thwart the aging process which is just a degenerative disease. And we know that aging and degenerative diseases, the underpinning s of those things are oxidative stress: these little ions that are generated as byproducts of the metabolism from just living, are destroying our cellular structures such as the cell wall, such as DNA.
We all know how important those are right? And also, chronic inflammation. So all of these diseases, which Dr. Farber deals with all the time, diabetes, obesity, degenerative diseases of the joints, atherosclerotic diseases of the heart and brain…these are all inflammatory diseases. So the goal is to get a jump on all of these diseases as early as possible.
Of course, it’s never too late to start. So you can be older and jump on the bandwagon and you should be on the exact same supplements as somebody who’s 20 should be on. I base my supplement choices on those premises. So my supplements are those which thwart inflammation and also (there’s a lot of overlap) which thwart the oxidative stress that is assumed by all of us by virtue of living. Unfortunately, just like gunk accumulates in the cylinder of a car, this gunk or damage accumulates within our cells and the arterial wall, etc. The way that we are going to dampen those effect of living is to use things like high dose omega-3 fatty acids which have very potent anti-inflammatory effects and also serve as very potent antioxidants.
I use a lot of aspirin and I consider that a supplement. Obviously, it’s nonprescription it’s accessible to everyone. I start people at relatively early ages barring any contraindications, you can talk to your doctor about this, any contraindications like bleeding disorders, and active peptic ulcer disease etc., there’s no reason why individuals in their 30s shouldn’t be on aspirin.
Aspirin, we used to think works by thinning the blood, in actuality it probably doesn’t work by thinning the blood it works by virtue of its anti-inflammatory effects. So supplements like that. I use a lot of resveratrol in my patients, why? Because resveratrol is a metformin-like substance. It improves insulin sensitivity. It works at the level of the gene. It has, we believe, anticancer effects. Again, this requires some reading and some understanding on the part of the reader or listener, it lowers the throughput of what’s called the insulin IGF-1 pathway which is associated with, (And Dr. Farber can comment on) cancer, aging, age-related disease, atherosclerosis, diabetes, all of the genesis of these diseases are reliant on a high throughput of what’s called the insulin IGF-1 pathway, which is a growth pathway.
Although we think about growth with muscle and things like that, too much growth is bad. And growth applies to not only muscle but growth applies to cancer, growth applies to atherosclerotic diseases…these are all mediated by growth factors in the body. Resveratrol tends to dampen the throughput through those, if you will, “bad” chemical pathways. So resveratrol, omega-3s, I use a lot of magnesium in my patients, green teas, antioxidants, anti-inflammatory agents. I use a lot of supplements which, again, I could name 50 of these things, are anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer. I talk about curcumin in my book.
Curcumin is a derivative of turmeric spice. It has anti-inflammatory responses. It is thought to be responsible for the 50% reduction in Alzheimer’s disease in Indians. Not American Indians but Indians. They have a 50% reduction in Alzheimer’s disease relative to Americans. IT’s thought to be due to high doses of spices like turmeric or cumin or curcumin, whatever you want to call it.
Patients that have Alzheimer’s disease, they have, what we believe to be, inflammation in the brain. So curcumin dampens inflammation and by virtue of that, reduces the incidence, we think, of Alzheimer’s disease. So there are a whole host of supplements I use, BUT to make it very easy the supplements I have chosen are not Cat’s claw or dog’s claw or things that are all over the shelves in these nutrition stores. Most of which are garbage. They are well thought out and are addressing the underpinnings of aging and age-related diseases: inflammation and oxidative stress. Somebody asked me today about some esoteric supplement I said, “Forget it. Are you taking enough omega-3s?”
He says, “Well I don’t take omega-3s.” I told him to forget this 9 million dollar supplement and just get on something that’s really doing to make a dent in the aging process, your health, and longevity. You have anything to add Leonard?
Actually I was going to jump in about turmeric. I recommend that a lot for my patients and it’s very easy to get in a health food store. They have drinks now that have that. That’s kind of an overlooked herb or spice if you will, but it plays an important role. Similarly, aspirin. I’m a big proponent of both of those, again, barring no medical contraindications. So do not go on aspirin if you have an ulcer or any bleeding problems. But if you don’t have any issues there’s no reason you can’t start with aspirin. You can start with a baby aspirin and turmeric. These are general things you can start to supplement.
Somebody once asked me, “Well I like to have a drink once in a while” and we’ll probably get to alcohol in the next show but I’ve learned by experience about how it impacts your metabolism. But if you are going to have that drink (1-2 per week, not 3-4 per night) one of the things that you can add which is a supplement that is helpful, and again, this is not a reason to say, “I’m going to drink and this is going to work with my training” is to add some zinc as a supplement. Zinc in the form of picolinate in particular but there are some supplements that are going to help if you are going to have a little bit of cheating, but it depends on the listener ad how serious they are.
Supplements are very important as long as you understand what you’re doing. And I can’t stress enough, the importance of talking with a physician. I was just scrolling through a FabFit [post] today and on one of the discussion threads on TRT someone said “Ahh this is great, I really want to go on a supplement program, I don’t want to see a doctor about it so I’m just going to take what I get out of this..” And yes, everyone can get these agents on the black market and when you start to mess around, without the knowledge, and what I mean by that is, it’s not the shredded bodybuilder at the gym telling you, “You need to take 1000 mg of Test weekly.”
You need to see somebody who understands this medically. I can’t stress it enough. Yes, I was 18 at some point, I understand what it feels like to think you know everything. I learned just as much in the street as I did in medical school about these things. Actually that’s not true. I learned much more in the street than I did in medical school about these things. And the fact that Brett and I can take this information and apply it today and incorporate it into mainstream medicine…for those people out there who say, “Let me get just the amount of information I need, I’m going to go to the gym and buy my Test,” That’s not the right approach.
Again, I like Brett’s name of the book, “Get Serious.” Whatever we do, whatever we are going to want to achieve we need to be serious about how we’re going to approach it. You can’t do these things half-assed. You need to be educated you need to do it the right way for the longevity of this. I think what we’re trying to teach people here is how to achieve these goals in a healthy way that’s going to add longevity, substance, and quality, to your life.
We’re right up against the time, we’re going to go about 10 minutes over if you guys are OK with it, because we have some really great questions.
Yeah, I’ll stay on as long as I can. I’m probably good for about 4 or 5 minutes.
Are you OK Doc [Brett]?
So I’m going to just start Scott and then you finish:
Q & A
Q: “I have a question about overtraining. I’m 51 yrs. Old and I train as hard or harder than I did when I was in my 20s. I’m on TRT with a doctor’s prescription. I feel amazing. I think I am overtrained right now. What is your rule of thumb on when you should take time off? What are the side effect and things to notice when you’re overtrained?”
I’ll jump in with some generalizations and Brett follow me.
- If you think you’re overtraining, you probably are.
Because nobody really feels that unless they are starting to notice some changes in fatigue and energy.
- If you are in a muscle mass training mode, you are probably going to lose muscle mass.
Your body cannot keep up with your training. If you are doing cardio you’re energy level will be lower. The idea that you think you’re overtraining, you probably are. If you follow the rule of thumb of every 6-7 weeks to take a week off. If you are training very intensely, you could do 4 weeks on, 1 week off. That is a Lance Armstrong idea he presented years and years ago and it worked.
It’s very hard to do, but when you do implement it, you’ll feel it when you come back even stronger.
Awesome. Do you have anything to add Dr. Osborn?
No, I think that’s very well said. Most of us are overtraining. That’s why it says in the book, every 6-8 weeks, regardless of whether you think you are overtraining, you may feel great, but assume you are, take a week off and I guarantee you come back stronger.
I’m living proof of this. Here’s quick little thing that’s objective to see if you are overtrained.
Wake up in the morning, take your pulse, and write it down. Do this for a couple of weeks so you have a sense of where you are and what your basal pulse is. You are in bed doing this. You are not standing up. You are not doing anything. If you start noticing that your heart rate, your basal resting heart rate is 10% higher than it normally is. So if it’s 80 or 70 normally, and you’re at 77 saying, “Hmmm I’m not quite feeling right,” You are over trained.
I just use 10%. It’s really simple to remember. If you are tachycardic…when you guys woke up the other night and had just done this, I guarantee you your hearts were racing. I get this every once in a while after a very heavy deadlifting workout. I wake up in the middle of the night and my heart rate is flying. I say, “You know what? That was a major stress. I better think about waiting an extra day before I go back and train.” Because you’re going to not only going to have a crappy workout and feel lousy, but you also predispose yourself to injury.
Err on the side of resting more. Don’t’ train more. We are in a “more is better” society, but it does not apply to training.
Here’s question to piggyback on that:
Q: When you come back after resting, do you suggest changing your workout routine.
A: Nope. I keep it exactly the same. And Jay and I have had discussion about this. One of the reasons why I think that the workout in the book is that it is a hybridized form of other workouts, is that you can continue to do it.
There’s this whole notion that you need to change things, you need variability, this that and the other. I think that that mid-week workout gives a lot of variability. You can keep the workouts fun, you can change the stimulus; you don’t have to do exactly what I said. I laid out 3, 4, or 5 workouts that you can do. That provides the variability. But I do not believe you should be trying 17 different workout protocols per year. You know, if you come back after 6 weeks of training and you take a week off, do you need to try something different?
No. I think that you should set a goal. The guys I train with, we have index cards. My goal is to deadlift 600 pound by this time next year. And I’m going to get there by virtue of the fact that I will keep pushing and pushing despite the weeks off. I will rest appropriately. And I will keep moving because I like my protocol because it always allows you to have a benchmark as to where you are. I always want to be a little bit better than I was the year before, or a LOT better. And you’re not all over the place. Otherwise, you are changing 17 variables, you don’t know what works, you lose track, and I just think that it’s a lousy existence. Quite frankly and it doesn’t allow for progression.
Right, I agree. We may have to change the exercises if deadlifting becomes too intense or whatever, occasionally. I mean keep it as a staple workout but, like you said, take an extra day off. So I’m just going to jump in here Scott really quick and keep asking questions.
And by the way, Dr. Leonard had to get off and thank him for being here.
My glucose level was 83mg/dl 2 hours after my biggest meal. It was 72 mg/dl before breakfast. Am I at a healthy range? What are my ideal numbers? I am a weight trainer and I am 56 yrs. Old.
It’s a good question. Basically what you are doing is a glucose tolerance test. There are curves to which a normal glucose tolerance should basically fit to. All of these curves are all available…and there are various curves, so an individual who has “hypoglycemia” vs someone who is diabetic and relatively insulin resistance vs someone who has normal glucose tolerance.
You’re glucose should spike up to a certain level, after a meal, again this is in the book and I have a chart, and come down nicely by 3 hours later. It should normalize. It’s not anything to be concerned about. Actually your glucose tolerance sounds like it is fine. I think that that’s excellent and it’s a product or a testimony that you are probably walking around with a lot of muscle mass on your body because remember, your muscle acts as a sink. There are many websites that still have the normal glucose tolerance on them. And as long as you aren’t having any symptoms of hyperglycemia or anything like that, you want to be running around with as low of a glucose as possible. I’ve had my glucose tolerance tested and again I’m maxed out on metformin and I’ve gotten panic phone calls from my doctor saying “why is your fasting glucose 60?” And I say, “I’m not dizzy, it doesn’t worry me at all.”
So strive for low glucose, low basal insulin levels, very high insulin sensitivity (which means that you are pumping out just enough insulin to get your glucose down). That means if you have a very high degree of insulin sensitivity that means your muscle is doing its job as an inulin sink or sump by sucking up all that glucose by virtue of the fact that you have a lot of muscle on your body and therefore you don’t need as much insulin in your body.
Again, insulin is an inflammatory hormone. High insulin levels are not only associated with obesity, inflammation, cancer, Alzheimer’s disease…you want to keep your insulin levels low. You can get your insulin levels checked and they should be low low low. In the low 2s if possible.
And your glucose tolerance test should be a rapid rise and then a rapid reduction in glucose, back it its normal level within 3 hours. So that’s not a concern to me at all actually. Those numbers sound quite good. Keep the blood sugars low as possible as long as you aren’t dizzy. Keep your insulin sensitivity high by stacking on the muscle. Does that make sense?
Yeah. Scott there are 2 more questions. You go.
Quick question: Doc is most of this stuff in your book or all of that?
Yes. I know I talk and ramble and things like that but I hope I’ve done an OK job in the book explaining things. It sounds complex but it’s not really that complex. It’s just some very basic principles that an individual needs to understand in order to make an impact or change on their health.
I’ve said this a 1000 times, but ALL of these diseases are the same, they are just on a spectrum. They have very common underpinnings and themes. And if you are treating one and trying to prevent one, you are preventing them all. Does this make sense?
I got another question: If someone one where to consult with you, do you lay out a whole action plan? How much more are they going to get coming to you vs buying the book?
That’s a good question. I work for a corporation at this point, so it’s not a robust as I would like it to be. Ultimate it probably will be at some future date. But I basically serve as a counselor, a coach. I check a battery of very standard endocrine and metabolic tests. I put patients on supplements. And that’s really how the consultation works. Somebody that’s in the know: somebody like Jay, Monica, Leonard…the consultation is really going to be to just get them in my books for legal reasons and then I’m going to prescribe whatever I’m going to prescribe based upon an individual’s needs.
But a consult for them is really a no-brainer. They really need nothing from me but to be in my EMR. For individuals who are relatively novice, I just had two gentlemen, two brothers, one of whom was a former SEAL team 6 guy. They are very much in the know, they came to me very well informed and educated. So it was one of those consults where I was just making recommendations. We talked a bit about some of the exercise protocols in the book. I put them on various hormone treatments, made some supplement recommendations, etc., but their consult was more of a social visit and we were talking about this, that, and the other. And I fielded all their questions and whatever esoterica they wanted me to address – it just depends upon the level of knowledge. You have informed patients and very very poorly informed patients. It just works up the ladder, and then I have to go and explain things to them.
And you’ll consult with patients whether they’re in person or over the phone, correct?
The issue with consulting over the phone – I have no problem talking to individuals, I don’t charge anything to speak with these people – they usually get in touch with me through Facebook or through email. And I’m happy to answer questions and I make myself available to get the word out there.
Careful, you’ll get flooded.
To get the word out there and try and help as many people as possible. When they come to the office, obviously it’s a different story, but I’m sort of an open-access/open-book type guy.
And then I – Jay, do you have any other questions?
There was just one other question that I thought was relevant and good, if we have enough time to answer it. And it was, let me just read it, it says:
“Hi and forgive me if this has been asked already, but I’m a 37 year old male, I have symptoms of low testosterone, and actually low testosterone by blood work. I’m in the low 300’s range. I would like to ask Dr. Osborn if there is a certain level for TRT – if there is a certain milligram dosage that he recommends, and what are his thoughts on taking HGH. Again, with a prescription, legally, by a doctor, in combination with test.”
That’s a good question. Bang for the buck, and Jay, we’ve had this discussion before. I think that HGH quite frankly is overrated. I think that, bang-for-the-buck, in order to make the most impact on an individual, from a psychological standpoint, from a standpoint of physique, from a standpoint of fatigue, or libido, supplemental testosterone is really where the bang for the buck is as opposed to HGH. I’m on TRT right now, obviously I’ve been on growth hormone as prescribed by my physician in the past, and I just have never been enamored.
And I’ve been on it for stints to sort of give it an adequate trial, so I’m speaking from experience. As far as the first question is concerned (is there a number?), the answer is that, no, there’s not a number. I like to bring my patients up to optimal, the high end of normal, with regard to the total testosterone. That typically is around 1100 or 1200.
And the free testosterone is somewhere around 24 or 25. So, pin them to the high end of normal, not supra-physiological, but – and this is a big but – the dosing is a function of how one is feeling in combination with the number. So, if someone is doing great, their libido is good, their level of muscle mass, their strength, their energy level, their brain is working well (because testosterone does work on the brain), if they’re feeling great and their total testosterone is 800 and their free testosterone is 1800, I leave them alone.
I’m not here to make somebody into a super-human and tell them that they need more and more. That’s just not the way I work and if it happens to be on a low-dose testosterone, say 100 milligrams a week, so 0.5 of a cypionate, a 200 milligram per mil, that’s perfectly fine. Some of my patients are on 1 cc or 100 milligrams. It just depends upon the patient and it takes a little bit of time to get individuals “tweaked.” So, you have to be patient. It’s not that you come to the office, you get put on something and then all of a sudden you’re good. No, it doesn’t work like that.
It comes back to what Dr. Farber was saying, “Know thyself.”
Yes, you have to.
I have one other question that I thought was interesting that you sent over, Jay. It was, “What is your opinion on smartphone/internet addiction and how it affects the function of your brain,” which I thought was kind of interesting since you are a neurosurgeon. If there are any studies out there about over-inundation, you know, being on phones, computers all day – stuff like that.
That’s a good question and the military has done studies on this because they’re carrying high-wattage radios and they’re putting them right next to their heads. And there is a suggestion that maybe there is a slight increase in tumors of the 8th nerve, the hearing nerve. Those tumors are benign. There is no incidence between malignant brain tumors (so, the tumors that kill you within a year) as an example, which happens to be the most common malignancy of the brain, so the tumor that comes from the brain itself. So there is no incidence of primary malignancies of the brain with phone usage. Don’t panic. That being said, if you can, hold the phone away from your head.
Use a corded headset.
What’s better – Bluetooth or a corded headset?
The corded headset, with the microphone, where you’re keeping the transmitter aspect of the phone away from your head, I would think is safer and there’s a whole host of almost this cult within the anti-aging industry if you will, who are very big on keeping anything that emits any sort of electromagnetic radiation, very far away from you.
There are books and things like that written on it but I think it’s probably a lot of hype. But I would err on the side of keeping these things away from your head if possible just form the standpoint of developing an acoustic tumor because who wants one?
Awesome. You’re the best Dr. O.
Thank you so much for staying on.
So again, thanks you guys. And as always, this is about you being the best you, ever.
Just really quick remember you can get a free chapter of his book, Get Serious.
We’re doing Get Serious Volume 2: Advanced Strategies, but you can get a free chapter of Volume 1 right now by going to:
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